History Talks - HCNSW Podcasts
The History Talks podcasts offer a valuable opportunity to delve into Australian history through the insights of prominent historians or those who significantly contribute to historical knowledge.
These recordings capture speaker events, providing listeners with a platform to engage with the rich historical narratives and perspectives shared by experts in the field. Whether exploring significant events, individuals, or societal transformations, these podcasts serve as an accessible and informative resource for those interested in delving deeper into Australia's past.
The History Talks podcasts are a series of recordings of speaker events featuring leading Australian Historians, produced by the History Council of New South Wales. Creative Commons license: CC BY-NC-SA (Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike)
History Talks - HCNSW Podcasts
First Nations Conversations, Episode 2: "Living Histories: First Nations Creatives and Researchers in Conversation"
This conversation is part of the HCNSW podcast series "First Nations Conversations" that looks at First Nations histories of resilience, survival, and resistance.
This episode of "First Nations Conversations" is the recording of the 2025 History Week panel “Living Histories: First Nations Creatives and Researchers in Conversation” which was presented at the Vere Gordon Childe Centre at the University of Sydney, in partnership with the History Council of NSW and the Powerful Stories Network. The panel, chaired by Jadzia Stronell, was in conversation with Lily-Thomas McKnight, Samantha Snedden, and Amy Davidson.
In this session, they reflect on how cultural, family, and community histories are woven into their work as creatives and researchers. Together, they ask: How can history live beyond the archive? And what does it mean to research and create in ways that honour intergenerational memory?
First Nations Conversations, Episode 2: Recording of 2025 History Week panel “Living Histories: First Nations Creatives and Researchers In Conversation”
Jadzia Stronell
This conversation is part of a podcast series that looks at First Nations histories of resilience, survival, and resistance. Today’s episode is the recording of the 2025 History Week panel “Living Histories: First Nations Creatives and Researchers in Conversation” which was presented at the Vere Gordon Childe Centre at the University of Sydney, in partnership with the History Council of NSW and the Powerful Stories Network. This session is in conversation with Lily-Thomas McKnight, Samantha Snedden, and Amy Davidson.
This panel brought together First Nations creatives and history-makers to discuss how they weave cultural, family, and community histories into their work. The panel explored how “living histories” continue to shape research, storytelling, history-making, and creative practice. How can history live beyond the archive? And what does it mean to research and create in ways that honour intergenerational memory?
Michael McDonnell
Welcome everyone and thank you very much for coming tonight. It looked pretty grim earlier today, but at least it has cleared up a little bit. My name is Mike McDonnell. I'm Chair and Professor in History here at the University of Sydney. I'm here to just kick us off. The toilets are just around the corner, if you need them, just out the door and then around the corner, and there's food and wine at the back. And I did not bring juices or anything non-alcoholic, but there is water there, along with the wine and some food. After the event, we'll also retire and hopefully finish off the food and the drink. So first of all, I'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to the Gadigal people, the traditional owners and custodians of the land on which the University of Sydney was built, which was taken from them, of course, by settlers without their consent, treaty or compensation. This land here has always been a learning space for many Aboriginal nations, and as teachers and students, we can draw strength and guidance from Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander knowledge, one of the oldest knowledge systems in the world.
This acknowledgement is for me, at least tonight, a particularly special one. This event tonight is being co-hosted by the History Council of New South Wales, the Discipline of History in the School of Humanities at the University, the Vera Gordon Childe Centre for the Study of Humanity through Time and the Powerful Stories Network. But I think this is a special event because, apart from me getting in the way right now, I think it might be our first First Nations-only event held here in the VGCC boardroom, certainly our first event co-hosted by our Powerful Stories Network, possibly by the History Department. I can't speak for the History Council. I'm sure you've done much more interesting and creative things than us. I am an historian, but not a great one, but it is special for me in particular, because it represents what I hope will be a turn in the way that we do things here. With allies and friends, particularly in the History Department and in the Powerful Stories Network, we've been dreaming of ways we can turn ourselves outwards, to do more meaningful, engaged work with each other and with the communities in which we are immersed, and of supporting others to do their work and for them to lead us into a new era of community-engaged, community-led research and work. It's effectively to open the doors here at the University, not to tell others what to do, invite them in to tell them what to do, or to boast about our latest research, but instead to create a space so that we can learn from others, train together and learn better, where lived experience and different ways of history-making are valued as much, if not more, than what we find in the archives and in Q1 journals that few people read.
So I'm going to get out of the way after saying that. My only real job tonight is to introduce our wonderful organiser and chair for tonight, Jadzia Stronell. Jadzia is a Gamilaraay woman, originally from Biripi country on the Mid North Coast, Port Macquarie. Jadzia completed a Bachelor of Arts at the University of Sydney in 2024, majoring in History and Theatre and Performance Studies. She's currently finishing her Honours degree in History at the University of Sydney, an amazing, community-engaged project that's breaking a lot of barriers, supporting the work of the uncles and families of Kinchela Boys Home Aboriginal Corporation. With experience as a research assistant at Usyd and in project development and coordination across the fields of history, theatre and education, Jadzia is an aspiring First Nations historian who is dedicated to helping facilitate the recovery and recognition of marginalised histories. Passionate about public history, Jadzia is already an advocate for collaborative and capacity-building research with First Nations communities, and is endeavouring to connect First Nations histories of strength, survival and resilience with wider audiences, most recently through her work as First Nations Coordinator at the History Council, even while doing her History Honours thesis. So this is all Jadzia’s work tonight, from conception and design in bringing together this wonderful panel on First Nations creative histories, even in the midst of trying to finish her Honours thesis. Over to you, Jadzia, with huge respect and admiration and thanks. I feel like tonight and our future is in great hands.
Jadzia Stronell
Thanks, Mike. That was a very, very, very nice introduction. Thank you for that. I'd like to thank everybody for coming here today. I'm glad that the weather has shaped up for this, and hopefully when you all leave, it won't look as glum as it did this morning. So as Mike said, I'm Jadzia Stronell. I’m a Gamilaraay woman and the First Nations Project Officer for the History Council of New South Wales for 2025. Today’s panel brings together three fantastic First Nations women to explore how “living histories” continue to shape their research, history-making, and creative practice. The panel discussion will run for roughly about 50 minutes, with a 5–10 minute Q&A, and some refreshments and mingling afterwards. Today, I am here in conversation with Samantha Snedden, Lily Thomas-McKnight and Amy Davidson. So I'll go through and I'll just introduce each of our panellists first, and then we can dive right in.
Sammi is a Wiradjuri and Dunghutti woman based on Wangal land. She is an experienced creative producer and an emerging artist/curator who is committed to building meaningful connections between communities and cultural institutions. Sammi’s practice centres on weaving and poetry, and her first exhibition in 2023 that combined the two, The Enlightenment, was held at First Draft gallery. In 2024 Sammi was selected for the National Museum of Australia’s Encounters Fellowship, which offered emerging creatives the opportunity to engage in cross-cultural opportunities working with cultural materials held at Te Papa Museum in Aotearoa and the British Museum and Oxford University in the UK. Driven by a strong belief in collaboration, Sammi works to bridge the divide between colonial institutions and the diverse communities they represent, all the while striving to foster cultural experiences that are genuine and impactful to those she serves.
Then we have Lily at the end here. Lily is a proud Wiradjuri and Gomeroi woman with ties to Yuin Country. She is currently studying a Bachelor of Visual Arts (Honours) at the University of Sydney, majoring in Printmedia, and completed a minor in Archaeology. Lily’s art practice is influenced by her Aboriginal heritage and wish to connect to her culture. Lily has worked as a Curatorial Assistant in Indigenous Heritage at the Chau Chak Wing Museum and later as an Exhibition Producer (Curator) and First Nations Research Officer for the City of Sydney. She aims to continue working as a curator after university, focusing on Indigenous art and communities.
And then lastly, but definitely not least, we have Amy Davidson. Associate Lecturer Amy Davidson is a proud Wiradjuri woman on her mother’s side with mixed Anglo-settler heritage on her father’s side. Amy holds a BA in Government & International Relations and Indigenous Studies, and began a Master’s in Education (by Research) in 2019, later upgrading to a PhD in 2022. Her doctoral research takes an interdisciplinary approach to defining Aboriginal community-led research, exploring how it differs from other community-centred methodologies from an Indigenous perspective. Amy has coordinated and taught across a range of Aboriginal Education and Indigenous Studies units at the University of Sydney. Amy has presented lectures and workshops for undergraduate, postgraduate, and Aboriginal community audiences, and has contributed to projects such as the FASS-funded Community-Led Research Project. Amy’s work has been shared at national and international conferences including WHRN, AAA, NAISA, AIATSIS and AARE.
So yeah, I'm really excited for tonight, this evening, this afternoon, whatever you like to call it. And I guess I'll just go ahead and start off with the first question. And we can go around….one of you can speak first or intercept. First question is how do your own stories, whether that be cultural, family or personal, influence the research you do and the work you create? So we might have each of you tell us a bit about your past and current work and how you might have woven those stories in. So if anybody would like to start. No pressure.
Amy Davidson
Um, okay, how my identity and stories, family stories, histories shape what I do?
Jadzia Stronell
So you might like to talk about what you're working on at the moment or what you have worked on…
Amy Davidson
So everything? I would do a more relaxing job. Yeah, I'd probably be on an island, just on a beach. But if I'm not, because it informs everything I do, and it's my why for everything. And the more I learn about, like, you know, the way colonial penal authorities use racism and eugenics to weaponise Aboriginal identity and to punish and confine and abuse Aboriginal people, the more I'm driven, the less sleep I get, not because I get night terrors, but because I'm just so fuelled by having that being more commonly held knowledge in the social sphere, and in the social memory of the history of this place. But not just that, but the resilience and strength of mob. The strongest people I know are Aboriginal people, like, sorry, everybody. Sorry, not sorry. And yeah, it informs absolutely everything I do, from teaching, like, why I love teaching, and it's the first guest lecture I ever created was about my identity and about sharing some of my family story, about the complexity of identity and how contentious that is in and outside of communities, and in and outside of families. And the reason for that is because of the history that we have here, and the policies and practices that deliberately weaponise identity like that. So it informs my teaching, it informs the reason why I wanted to even go into post grad was because I was very fortunate enough, and still am, I always say I'm too blessed to be stressed, to have Aunty Lynn Riley as a supervisor and cultural mentor, and Irene Wardle as well, both women have very closely mentored me, and that is why I have achieved what I've achieved so far. I can absolutely give it up to my family, inspiring me and supporting me, and Aunty Lynn and Irene very closely mentoring me and keeping me safe in this place as well. The reason why I went into post grad after my undergraduate degree here as well, was because, basically, I followed Aunty Lynn around to all of her subjects. And then I was like, and then I remember in Indigenous research methodologies, which are now coordinate, which is a huge like, pinch me full circle, ‘I can't believe this is my life’ kind of thing. But I remember Aunty Lynn talking about the end of the unit, this emerging idea of…although this is the thing, it's not emerging. It's emerging in these contexts…of Aboriginal community led research, and something happened in my spirit and in my body, and it was I was on fire, and I just like knew, and I am 37, I did my undergraduate degree, I started when I was 27, so it's been 10 years of being a student, and because I'm in my final year of my PhD and where was I going with that…community led research…I was on fire. Then I said to Aunty Lynn, we built a relationship at this point, like she'd met my grandparents, etc. and as you do when you were like, you know. And I said, would you be my supervisor? And like, do I have permission to engage in research with, because Aunty Lynn's Wiradjuri and Gamilaraay, and I don't know why but she said yes. And so yeah, the whole why was because, from everything in that I'd learned from Aunty Lynn, I could see, it's like the answers are there, they've always been there, they're in Country, they're in community. We just need to do things our way. And so that's how I found myself as one of those weird people who like writes about how to do what you're trying to do at the same time as doing it. And like, they call it methodologies, but like, that word is just so, like, what am I even saying? Like, it took me, like, I think the first three years of my Masters and PhD to figure out what that word even really meant, um, but it's the how, it's the practice, it's like, connecting, you know, all the things to do with culture and Country and community and Aboriginal governance and knowledge sharing and knowledge generation and keeping knowledges safe, that is research. We've been doing research like for time immemorial. And so it's just about community having a power in that that's the problem, because the practice has already existed. It exists. We don't need to explain it anymore. Yeah, so that's my…that didn’t directly answer the question…
Jadzia Stronell
No, I love it. I love it.
Amy Davidson
Pretty classic of me.
Jadzia Stronell
Sammi?
Samantha Snedden
Can you repeat that question?
Jadzia Stronell
Yeah, it's a bit of a long question...So how do your own stories, whether that be cultural, family or personal, influence the research you do or the work you create? And kind of like how Amy did, you could tell us about your past or current work and maybe what you've done to weave those stories in, or how that's influenced the way in which you've worked?
Samantha Snedden
Yeah, I would say my family's histories, most their stories, have really influenced who I am today. It's really especially, I owe a lot to my grandparents. My pop was a knowledge holder. He shared a lot of knowledge with us growing up. And I think when you're a young kid, and we lost him when I was quite young, and when you're young, you just don't understand the magnitude of knowledge that he has. You know, you always want to be doing other things instead of just chatting or things like that. So I feel like that's really influenced my work in reconnecting and unlocking those memories, because I know I have the knowledge in there, it's just filed away in a different, different centre of my brain. And I feel like a lot of the work I've been doing, I've been really lucky to work with communities and have a lot of moments triggered, like the access to these memories, and through my creative practice, I would say a lot of my woven works pay homage to my grandparents and to the ongoing relationship with them, even though they're not here in a physical sense.
Lily Thomas-McKnight
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to extend on that as well. I mean, growing up on Yuin land with a lot of my Elders telling me a lot of knowledge and not really taking it in as a child, but starting to get older and realising the importance of that for my identity, just because, like my art making and working as like a curator, it's not just like an interest. I feel like it's an obligation to advocate for my community and my mob. With my most recent work, so with my honours project, I've been trying to connect more with, like, my identity and my community down in Nowra, so that's been kind of by doing that, it's weaving in their stories into my project. So going home, sitting with my Elders and knowledge holders and listening to their stories respectfully and at their pace as well, and not rushing things and obviously asking them as well if they want to be involved in things too. But yeah, connecting back with my mum has been, I feel really beneficial to my practice as an artist as well, and it's really shaped how I view myself and how to, I guess, communicate with other people and like decolonising myself in a way.
Jadzia Stronell
Yeah, amazing. Was there a particular starting point that brought any of you to focus on Indigenous histories in your research or creative work? And this is kind of a stacked question so there’s another question on top of this…Do you think your initial methods or intentions have evolved from the starting point? And I do think you kind of all have already talked about that, about how you know when you were younger, you did this listening that you might have not have paid enough attention to until later. But I guess a question that really kind of stands out for me is was there a starting point or a turning point that brought you to focus on what you do now and what you're working on now as well?
Lily Thomas-McKnight
I think for me, it's kind of it's always been there, but it's just kind of unlocking it in a way. So like both my parents, work with community, and it's always been my house, household has been we're very proudly Aboriginal, and we also acknowledge the pain that comes with that as well. But I think for me, it was kind of moving to Sydney, especially to this university and not being around other Aboriginal people in my classes, other than like the Gadigal Centre, and understanding how much my Aboriginality shapes my identity, and really like shapes me as a person if that makes sense.
Samantha Snedden
So I would say, um, I started working when I was pretty young at Museums of History New South Wales, as a First Nations programme producer. That was probably the starting point for me, and I always felt called to work in an identified role or uplifting community. Yeah, really proud and like to be Aboriginal and to support the community. So I guess the question growing up was like, where am I going to end up? And sort of fell into the arts. And I remember, as if I'm talking about my creative practice, I went out to Blacktown to the art centre out in Dharug Country, and there was a weaving workshop there, and I was a part of the exhibition. And I remember I was so ashamed. I was like, I don't want to sit down and weave, I'm going to be really bad. And then an Elder was like, no, like, Sam, you're gonna sit down like, you're gonna, you're gonna do this. And I remember the exact moment, and when I did it first, I was, you know, but I was really transported spiritually. I feel like ever since losing my grandparents, I've always been seeking different ways to connect with them, connect with culture. And that was the first moment since losing them where I felt like I was with them. And ever since then, I've been obsessed with weaving and then that really triggered me thinking about, Oh, can I research different techniques across the country? What are the colonial institutions overseas holding all the woven objects? All which led me to applying for the fellowship the National Museum.
Amy Davidson
I feel like history, like historical context, has to be explained in, like, all the time, everything. So even in, like, my PhD work, even though it's about like, Aboriginal community led research the history of like, the first thing that came out in yarns with, there's an Aboriginal governance group as part of the PhD, because I am a young, 37-year-old woman. But like culturally young as well like is what I more am referring to. But having that guidance and that consensus building formally acknowledged as well. And obviously I do that as well. You know, cultural protocols happen outside of that as well. But I just wanted that really acknowledged, an opportunity to also have people like recognize for the role of culturally mentoring in a formal way. Anyways, so the one of the first thing that things that came out of yarns was research is a dirty word and the history is painful. And then so the even trying to rush to like, how do we, you know, shift power to communities like, already 10 steps ahead, because we haven't healed and done enough truth-telling about research that happened last week. And that was the other thing that came out, that these practices are not historical, that they're very much ongoing and in ways that are kind of more insidious because they're harder to call out, because they're less explicit to people who don't recognize but once you recognize it, it's not it's not implicit at all. It's, like, very obvious. But then where I really found myself drawn, like, to the archives, specifically, which I've, like, fallen in love with the archives, and I could just, you know…which I really would not have put on my bingo card for my personality or myself. But I kind of actually fell into it just trying to find RA work while I didn't have a full time role yet and teaching was quiet in second semester. So anyway, someone recommended me to be for a research assistant, and it was John Clegg who now is a colleague that, like we work together, but he had come from the US to Australia. He did his PhD in historical incarceration of people of colour, First Nations people and African American peoples, like colonial incarceration. Because what a lot of people don't realise is that a lot of those records aren't collated and digitised. So we don't actually know at what rate, First Nations, people, you know, everywhere in the world was colonised at one point, at one point, except for three countries. Actually him and Adana, who works at Harvard, the two of them...actually, I only just found out the other day, they met as undergraduate students and became like friends and bonded over really caring about historical incarceration. And yeah, and so now they've, like, kind of 10 years later, still looking at historical incarceration during any point, any time where the coloniser stayed or left, what the rate of incarceration was for First Nations people. And so as well, the definition of incarceration is not just formal incarceration, like what we hear today, it's also informal forms of incarceration, such as including missions reserve, the Stolen Generations, which actually started immediately from first contact, and, you know, human theft, murder by the state, all that kind of stuff. And so any form of punishment or confinement. And I just, I didn't really kind of connect, it's so obvious now, but I just totally got consumed by this project and stopped doing my PhD. And it took her six months to figure out, like, what I'd been doing with all my time. I was just like lost in the archives. But the reason I'm so passionate about it is because my papa…once he retired, he started this programme at Little Bay Prison, where it was basically a volunteer counselling sort of service for inmates who no one would visit them anymore. And then it turned into, then it was also once people left, people who didn't have anyone anywhere to go or any want to pick them up, my grandparents would pick them up and give them a backpack with a toothbrush and a mobile phone and take them to, you know, get like, a Opal Card and all that sort of stuff. And then it turned into, you know, the black grapevine did its thing, and it was like, ‘oh, there's this uncle, and he'll help you out.’ And then he started reconnecting mob who had been incarcerated for a long time and lost connections with their family, and reconnecting people with their family and their communities. So he’s only just, he's 86. And he only just stopped when he got cancer last year. So, yeah, so he's been doing that for 10 years, and so I think that kind of wanting to honour his like legacy in that work, and how passionate, how much, like, you couldn't sit down with him without him talking about the work. And so I think that's what's kind of intrinsically motivated me, without me kind of realising into a reflection later. But yeah, now this project is just taken on a whole thing of its own. I basically convinced John. I was like ‘listen John, I really like you.’ I made friends with him first. And was like, ‘you can't lead this project, bro. It needs to be run by an all Aboriginal research team, and there needs to be the right reply, Indigenous data sovereignty, like this is huge.’ And then there was this symbolic moment where, there's more to this story, but months passed and there was this symbolic moment where he gives…Aunty Lynn loves everything on a USB…so I told him to put it on a USB and he was like ‘okay’ and he put all the archival data that him and I collected in Queensland, and put it on USB stick and gave it to Aunty Lynn, and said, ‘Here, you decide what to do with it. I’m going back to the US, and you can watch me delete everything off my computer.’ But now he's like, it's full circle, and Aunty Lynn loves John, so I don't think he would have ever expected that turn of events, but yeah…There's a lot more I could talk about but I don't want to hog.
Jadzia Stronell
All three answers were absolutely phenomenal. I'll ask the next question and it's a little bit different from the previous question but how do you allow for history to live beyond the archive? Or how would you like to see First Nations history live beyond the archive if you're working towards that as well?
Lily Thomas-McKnight
I think it's important to understand that archive is more like a, well for me, it's more like a Western concept, an idea, because like, our culture is living and ongoing whereas the archives, people usually view it as things that have happened in the past. So I do think it's important to, like, reshape how we think of things. And my Elders have been helping me do that in a way. So it's like looking at, I've been, like, encouraged to look at Country as a living entity that holds memory and history, and in a way, is kind of like an archive, and just sitting with Country as well and learning from it. But yeah, I think for like to go beyond the archive is like through storytelling and truth telling. So I need to remember the exact quote but it's an author, Toni Morrison, and she says something like, the definitions are made by the definer, not the defined. So it's using storytelling through art or like other means to not recreate, but, like, correct those past histories that have often been held in archives and take control over the narrative, and really, I guess, tell people even just for ourselves as well and our continuation, that we're a living culture and have this really strong connection to each other and Country.
Samantha Snedden
I just want to echo what Lily was saying. I completely agree that the archives, you know, it's such a Western concept, but, you know, there's archives in our cultures through Country, it's in Country, it's in our songs, it's in our dance, it's in our art, it's everywhere. I think one way I would like to see it live beyond the walls of an archive, I guess, is working with community and letting community lead about how they want to get their stories and their share their culture out there, if that's through an exhibition, if that's through programming, but really giving it back and sharing it on a larger scale.
Amy Davidson
So beautiful answers. So wait, what am I talking about? So in relation to the historical incarceration project here, tiny bit more context….so there are no collated, digitised records of incarceration rates prior to 1978 of First Nations people and non-indigenous people. I know it's wild. And I don't need to, you know, harp on about the contemporary statistics. We know the contemporary statistics, but why are they like that? And why are we an international outlier? And it's because that mass incarceration was, it like it was a colonial tactic that was often deployed, but it was deployed here in a way that was unmatched globally. Yeah, so after John did the USB stick baton pass, Aunty Lynn started working hard on getting data sovereignty happening through AIATSIS, through a partnership with AIATSIS, because they already do things that are culturally appropriate, but that’s a whole other thing. But one of the other parts that we knew straight away had to be equal focus of this project, other than collating and digitising the statistics themselves, which were obviously engaging with archival like normal colony reporting, which is horrific to engage with, in terms of like they were just not very good at their jobs. And so it's not right to just solely rely on these reports, and that community has the right to reclaim these…we've been written about so much. And you know, information with surveillance is also just as heavily a part of incarceration. It's like, you know, they kind of operate together. And so part of it is, has to be reclaiming the right to reply and not just speaking back to but taking control and ownership back over these archival reports about us. But also to seek justice, you know, because the irony of it is, is that it was done in under the guise of, you know, justice and protection, and, you know, humanitarian aid, like even in the distribution of blankets, which is one of the ways they counted census and surveillance as well. And so one of the things that we're doing in November with Mike. Thanks, Mike for helping together the grant, when I said I want to go for it two days before it was due. Where Aunty Lynn, Irene and I are hosting a workshop of the right to reply. We’re going to invite key community organisations and kind of share with our broad networks. And any community members are invited. You guys can come and you can come, anymore in the room. We're gonna share kind of the, I hate talking about it this way, but like the things that we've gathered, I'll say that rather than the preliminary findings. Because the data is real. It's our ancestors. And so it's, you know, bringing back to life the fact that, you know, this is our ancestors that we're talking about. And so as part of that, most of the day is carved out for just community to have a yarn about it, and whether or not people want to share, you know, their own oral histories and lived experiences and things like that. But then also, because Irene is doing her PhD on, and I’m not going to speak for Irene but it's a really important part of the project on blankets and reclaiming the blankets, which were distributed as a way to count how many people there were…there are lots of things I could talk about to do with the blankets. But basically, one of the ways that we're trying to revitalise culture and also have that healing and truth telling kind of all in one sort of activity, is to also, whilst sharing stories and oral histories, is revitalising kangaroo possum skin cloak-making. It’s like the cloaks were made illegal and the blankets were given. And so obviously that is a sign of sovereignty. It's proof of sovereign. It's proof of connection to Country, community, and it's your identity. So it is very powerfully symbolic. So revitalising that practice as a response to the blankets symbolically is really powerful, and that's one of the ways. And we're just getting started. We’re warming up Country, warming up community with this project, and we're encouraging people like communities to do this project like, you know, do this work themselves, if they would like to, and we're happy to support people. So it's not something that we like feel ownership over. I feel like a custodian of, you know, these archival materials, and my role is just support anyone who wants to do that work for their own families or communities, and that we share it in a way that's safe for communities, in whatever way that looks like.
Jadzia Stronell
I think, like from all three of you, the consensus is very much each of your roles is, in some sense, to be like a facilitator. Being that facilitator not for you to speak for others, but to listen and remember and then facilitate what communities want, which I think is fantastic. My next question is, what does it mean to research and create in ways that honours intergenerational memory? And again, a lot of you have talked about your families and your identity. So this is weaved into a lot of the questions that have already been asked today. But is there anything else that you'd like to mention in terms of the way you research, the way you create, that honours intergenerational memory?
Lily Thomas-McKnight
I mean, like I mentioned before, I have been trying to work a lot more with my community when it comes to my art making, it just goes with, I think, intergenerational memory. It's not just my memory and my stories to tell. It's a whole community. Especially because we work so like holistically. It’s expected that we work that way as well. So I think to I guess honour that memory, It's really important, especially being my age and still learning how to do things, to seek advice and guidance from my Elders and knowledge holders. And they can also advise how to present stuff appropriately, and how to honour that appropriately, but what to share and what not to share? Because some things are only just meant to be for us. Not everything is meant to be for everyone.
Samantha Snedden
I think for me, it's as a young person. I just try and listen actively, really practice deep listening. I feel like I'm really lucky and fortunate to have many mentors around me, and I think also not underestimating like yarns around the kitchen table or the stories that are being shared. And for me, as a creative and a weaver, a lot of those stories come out that's appropriate to share and come out through my creative practice and stories that I'm trying to share through my weavings. So taking a moment to understand the significance of what knowledge is being passed down and what are the stories, but also, like you're saying, seeing myself as a facilitator, or like bridging a bridge to share with you know, young generations into the public.
Lily Thomas-McKnight
Yeah, I think that memory as well, sometimes it takes time to share that. And especially, I feel like when working with mob and communities, you need to earn people's trust and have that relationship that's also ongoing. It's not just you get what you need and then leave and never talk to people ever again. It doesn’t work that way. It’s also respecting our cultural protocols. And to me, it's common sense, but just like involving everyone.
Amy Davidson
Yeah and actually it's funny because that's kind of what the Aboriginal community led research project is…it's like common sense and like it’s just kind of embodied. But you have to explain that to other people who it's not embodied for them. So it's kind of a funny thing. I feel like I'm pointing like out a boring, obvious thing, and other people are like, this is really interesting. I'm like it’s pretty commonplace. Actually, both of you said things that triggered what I wanted to talk about. Your dad actually talks about in his writing this idea of a spiritual email, like memories come through spiritual emails. And actually, I quoted him in in my thesis, because I talk about it in relation to living memories with my family. So my papa’s mum had an exemption certificate, and nobody in my family talked about it. Everyone knew who they were, but nobody talked about it, because his dad was non-Indigenous, and we're talking height of assimilation policies and her Aboriginality was like point of abuse every single day in his childhood and in the home, in every way that your identity could become weaponised against you. So kind of like tying together…and actually, the spiritual email thing, really, that was very healing for me, because it helped me kind of reckon with that pain of like…sorry, I didn't expect to get emotional. I haven't been emotional about it for a long time, because I, like, basically cried for many years over it, non stop, s I thought I'd cried all of the tears for it. But that tension of like knowing but not naming and when my family started to heal from it and name it, it was like so obvious and hilarious. So that's what's been healing, like surrounding myself with mob heals my soul and like, but also realising that I've surrounded myself with mob my whole life. Lol. Because we find each other…So, oh, God, I could tell you some stories…Anyway, so yeah your dad's spiritual email thing. And yes, that really helped me reconcile some painful parts of like, kind of like healing but also not judging my family for the way they handled those policies, you know, because you can't help but feel shame about that, you know. And it's actually a time where it's like, you there's, there's shame either way, and there's pain either way. And I have privilege from being white passing, you know. And so it's really complicated. And so that's why I like to talk about it, because a lot of young mob have these painful experiences and yearning for culture and yearning for community, and aren't sure how to navigate it and aren't sure how to reach out. Yeah, I know I went on a bit of a tangent there, didn't I?
Jadzia Stronell
Thank you so much for sharing that. All your answers were really great. Yeah, that was very well put from all three of you. I'll just check the time, 5.55…I’ll squeeze in one last question, and then we'll go to Q&A if people have any questions. And if anyone doesn’t then I have two more questions here that I can ask. And I think this is a very nice one to kind of round off the evening. But what advice would you give to younger First Nations people who want to learn more about their family or cultural histories and the ways that this learning can be done without conventional approaches, like, you know, going to the archives, though that is a legitimate way.
Amy Davidson
It's a bit of a hard-core…you know, put on a hazmat suit first.
Lily Thomas-McKnight
I feel like we've gone over quite a lot of it as well. And like, I mean, I'm still learning how to do all of this as well, so I do keep that in mind. But I mean, like, for me, it's like connecting with my family, and like Sammi said as well, that deep listening without judgment. My dad a couple of weeks ago, he, like, explained to me it's like, so you have, like, two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, but only one mouth. So in some cases, you need to do less speaking and use more of the other senses when it comes to learning. I think that's a good way to approach, I guess, relearning like some cultural things as well, and speaking to mob and knowledge holders. For me as well in Sydney, just putting your face and meeting the local mob and people more than willing to help out as well, and it's okay to ask questions to, I think people are quite willing to help out and give advice when it's needed. But yeah.
Samantha Snedden
Yeah, I want to echo that. I think it's we've said it a lot tonight that I would say, seek out those knowledge holders, those people who have stories about whoever in your family, and listen like, really, really listen and take it in. I think too, it's always a journey. It's ongoing journey. Like a lot of us have traumas and you know, it's hard, it's hard, and it's not a linear process, and it's never, I don't think it's, there's always going to be some challenges. So just give yourself some grace and enjoy the process of reconnecting to involve your family.
Lily Thomas-McKnight
Yeah, I think it's good taking your time as well. Just because, like you said, a lot of it can be quite painful as well. Yeah, I think it's good to sit with things and process it and then, you know, you can move on to the next step in that journey.
Amy Davidson
Yeah, a therapist is helpful. I recommend that. A culturally safe, therapist, psychologist. I'm not even joking. I tell students that all the time, like, first week of the semester, I'm like, ‘There's free Psych Services here. You should be there right now.’ Yeah, so again, also lifelong learner. In culture, everyone is a lifelong learner. That's why, when you know the most like incredible knowledge holder you'll meet will be like the most humble and the most quiet. And as someone who loves to talk, obviously, that is that has been something that I've found outlets for my talking so that I can be more quiet in other contexts. But I think yeah, just kind of echoing things that we've already talked about, just surround yourself with your people and we are everywhere. We're surprisingly everywhere. And I think that has been the biggest, I think that's why I've really struggled to kind of really succeed at anything in my life until I had like community around me and guiding me and mentoring me, like my life has completely changed. And I think like that has to be the constant, like, that's the best. And also, there's a lot of low-hanging fruit at USyd, heads up, and you should grab that fruit and eat it, because, yeah, it's deserved.
Jadzia Stronell
Alright, well, that takes us to the end of the discussion. Is there any questions? I think we might have time for maybe one, two, maybe one question. Any? It's okay if you don't, because I have more…No? Brilliant, okay, I can ask one of mine. I was actually hoping none of you would…So where do you see yourself going from here, in terms of developing, interpreting and exploring your own family, cultural, community history. You might just talk about what you're working on now, or what you're working on soon. I know Lily, you're doing honours. You might want to talk about that a bit.
Lily Thomas-McKnight
I can talk about my honours, which I guess it's like more of a stepping stone to like a bigger project, but I've been trying to explore relearning, like my traditional languages, and my honours is more about the foundations of language and how Country is that foundation. So it's looking at, well, like in Yuin culture, core learning teachings. So ‘watch, listening, seeing,’ which we've gone over that quite a lot, and respectful listening. And…God, what was I gonna say? But yeah, what I've really discovered in that project is the importance of mob and like mentioned before in every other question, how it's not only my voice and we're like a collective. So that's something I think I would really like to continue to develop, even like after uni and after my honours project. And just, you know, maintaining that connection to people and Country.
Samantha Snedden
I would say very similar for me. I really want to spend more time out on Country, Wiradjuri Country in Wellington, and up to Kempsey, Dunghutti Country. I feel like spending time with my community, my Elders, that really influences my artistic practice, and that's when I feel like the safest and when I like the freest to create. Watch this space.
Amy Davidson
Very exciting. Yeah, actually the same. Like the goal is always to spend more time on Country and with community, like communities all around but when spending time on your Country…it actually wasn't until my husband said, because I also grew up on and off Country outside of Bathurst. I lived on my papa's farm, which I don't have anymore, but, yeah, I took my husband out west for like, he didn't know, like, there was this whole other part of like, my, like, I have a whole other personality to that he unlocked, but he didn't unlock but he was seeing, that was always present, just not outward. Yeah, like, code-switching, like, what we were talking about before. And yeah, he was like, he’s not a very like, he’s not very spiritual person. He's Greek. And so, you know, the Aboriginal Greek connection, you know he's good peoples. But yeah, he kind of, he said to me, actually, you're different out here, like you're like, you're calm…I think because I'm like, so like, how high energy I've been, like, in this is like, how I am all the time, except on Country, I'm not like that. Like, I slow right down, and I feel so much more grounded. And Aunty Lynn and I have this thing where we'll look at each other and be like, it's time, and that means like, It's been too long, I'm feeling low and I need to go be back on Country and reconnect.